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HIRAM-1381633

Articles Posted: 68  Links Seeded: 5
Member Since: 10/2009  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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Resolution Part 1

Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:39 PM EDT
world, wife, children, brother, father, word, opposition, god, bible, jesus, husband, christ, scripture, not-news, friend, resolution
By Hiram-1381633
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I Hiram do solemnly resolve before God to take full responsibility for myself, my wife and my children.

I WILL love them, protect them, serve them, and teach them the Word of God as the spiritual leader of my home.

 

I have been on a journey over the past few months, it has been one of enlightenment and of sorrow. It has been rewarding and it has been convicting, what it has not been is easy. When it comes to many aspects of our lives there is that tendency to settle into what others, society and eventually ourselves determine that it is good enough. I have been told I am a good father, a good friend and a good husband, that brought up the question in my life; Do I want to be good enough, or do I want to be all that I can be? When is good enough good enough? What does God expect of me and is He happy with good enough? Do my spouse, children and friends deserve better than good enough? These are some hard question and I am still on a journey to answer them in full, however I thought I might share what I have discovered so far.

 

   There is an saying "The buck stops here" when it comes to leadership this is or at least should be true. When I was in the military the leaders we respected were those that lead by example. They trained harder, studied harder and were the first there and the last to leave. When things went wrong they were the ones to step up as the leader and take full responsibility for their actions. They were people we looked up to an strived to emulate. As the spiritual leader of my house that is what I am called to do. I am called to leader by example. Scripture says in 1 Timothy 3:4 of a father he is to be "one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence."  Ephesians 5:23 says of a husband  For the husband is the head of the wife, as also Christ is the head of the church"  My first thoughts when I read this was to question the word "rules" what does that really mean? If you take time and look at the Greek the word it refers to a present character that will provide the needed role model to direct others by positive actions having a positive impact. The next word that caught my attention is "submission" in today's world that has so many negative feelings attached to it. When in context here it means to obey and watch, to learn. I am to lead by example, if I am to be effective as the spiritual leader of my house I am to be the example that my family and my friends can follow.

 

   That example I am to emulate to them is Jesus Christ. As the head of the church Christ lead by example, He set the standard that I should strive to reach. He protected His people when He rebuked the storm on the sea. He was always diligent in teaching them the Word of God by word in His parables and sermons. He lead them in His way by being a living example. Perhaps most important He served them even unto death. His last night with His disciples He put on the towel of a servant and washing their feet. When I came to that clear and precise realization of how far I had fallen short I felt fear. How can I live up to that example? Then I felt remorse with the realization that time after time I had failed at this because I had settled to be good enough. My heart ached because it rang true "The buck stops here". I am called to protect my family, to teach them the Word of God, lead them in His ways, and serve them with all my heart and sole.  I needed to fix this and so the journey began to become the husband, father and friend God expects me to be. 

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Hiram-1381633

I started this journey a few months ago and it has been a blessing. Even with the fear, sorrow and struggles it has brought. I will do my best to articulate the steps as I move forward. Thank you for stopping by and reading.

H

  • 6 votes
#1 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:41 PM EDT
kaviaq

and teach them the Word of God as the spiritual leader of my home.

Ugghh. Your wife is an adult. She can read the Bible for herself and doesn't need a leader. How condescending and chauvinistic.

  • 8 votes
#1.1 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:02 PM EDT
Hiram-1381633

Let us not go there with the name calling and anger. One can teach without being condescending, one can teach by living as an example of love. You are right my wife us an adult and she does read her bible every day, I applaud and love her for that. Until you know me and understand me perhaps you should reserve your quick judgement as to who I am or what I am. I hope that will be further explained and shown in future installments in this series. Thank you for stopping by.

H

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:12 PM EDT
kaviaq

You just said YOU are the spiritual leader of your family. Why YOU? Why does there have to be a leader? It implies you are above your wife, that she needs YOU to tell her what to think. Why? Because you are male? Why can't you teach your children together as equals?

Perhaps you don't realize how bad that sounds?

  • 9 votes
#1.3 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:18 PM EDT
Hiram-1381633

I understand where you are coming from. The world looks at things much more differently. when we hear the word leader we naturally assume that means the person in charge with the final say in everything. Then we put up barriers to that because all of us are self-willed and for the most pert self-centered and feel no one should rule over us.

However if we look at Jesus and His example of leadership it was one of example. He never command anyone to follow Him He only had to ask. It was because of His character and His life that people followed Him. He humbled Himself becoming a servant of God and a servant to those around Him. He often said those that are least shall be the first. It was the humble that would be exalted. He humbled Himself and was a servant even unto death on the cross.

According to God and the Christian way of life there is a spiritual leader and it is the husband that is to be the spiritual leader. You perhaps do not understand that it does not mean that I am not to rule over my house, but to lead by example. To live a life that reflects the love and live of Christ so that my family will want to live that way to. I do not lead by force or by power but by servitude and humility. These are not concepts that are easy to grasp nor familiar to our self-willed self-centered world. Like I said perhaps you should continue to follow and see where it goes and reserve judgement for another time.

H

  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:31 PM EDT
kaviaq

According to God and the Christian way of life there is a spiritual leader and it is the husband that is to be the spiritual leader.

Not all Christians are so sexist. There are women priests. Do you think they need their husbands to explain the Bible to them? The Bible was written by sexist men and of course they wanted to keep women in line. But you must see how sexist and degrading that is. Women are not children who need guidance.

These are not concepts that are easy to grasp nor familiar to our self-willed self-centered world.

I graso the concept of equality. My husband and I learn from each other...there is no "leader".

  • 8 votes
#1.5 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:37 PM EDT
Hiram-1381633

I believe we have come to an impasse and that is not unusual nor bad. We all have different ideas on what makes a marriage a family or how we should live our lives and by which standards we should live them. Perhaps you missed the part about being a leader means to be a servant and to serve with humility we often only see what we want to see because it supports our view on the world.

My wife and I are always learning from each other that is a wonderful gift. My duty as a the spiritual leader if you missed is to lead by example. The live the life that reflects Christ love so that my family will want to live that same life. I cannot put it any more clearly, that to lead is not a position of power as the world would have us believe but a position of humility and service. There is no more I can say and I will leave your understanding of it in your hands.

H

  • 3 votes
#1.6 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:54 PM EDT
kaviaq

You aren't answering any of my questions.

teach them the Word of God as the spiritual leader of my home.

This implies you'll be teaching your wife the Word of God. Why does she need YOU to teach HER??

Perhaps you missed the part about being a leader means to be a servant and to serve with humility

I suppose this sounds good to you. But if the leader is the servant then the terms "leader" and "servant" are pretty meaningless. Why can't you be clear about what you mean? Why does religion use so much double talk and cryptic sayings?

But you are right, we probably won't reach any kind of understanding on this and if your wife doesn't mind being grouped in with the children that is her business.

  • 8 votes
#1.7 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:55 PM EDT
Anna-90776

kaviaq,

I attended Sunday School for much of my young life. I am female and I am proud to be one. I am liberal in my politics and in my thinking. This particular scripture lead to many a heated, but kind, argument in our classes. Finally it sunk in one day because the class teacher said the man leads as Christ leads: not as a dominant force, but as a loving example. I am sure Hiram's wife is a loving example herself.

I know this is not my battle and I do not chose to engage in one but Hiram is a good friend and I can't just walk out of the thread on him. He has shared a walk he is going through in his life. He didn't ask our permission nor did he ask for challenges. It is his life and his understanding and his spiritual quest. He shared it on newsvine. A pretty courageous thing to do. I felt enlightened about his life after reading and I cherish a heart that is out there trying to make the world a better place.

Again, I mean no disrespect to you either. Just wanted to try to soothe any feathers that felt Hiram was now a "home dictator." That's truly not what the scripture means. And truly not what Hiram means either.

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:35 PM EDT
kaviaq

the class teacher said the man leads as Christ leads

But why do you not question why it has to be the MAN?? Maybe in a particular couple the woman would be a better leader, more spiritual or a better example. The basis of saying a man is to woman as Jesus is to man is inherently sexist....it implies men are above women.

  • 8 votes
#1.9 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:39 PM EDT
Anna-90776

No where in the Bible is leader described as above. That is straight out of our minds! The best leaders are in the trenches beside you:) Or sometimes carrying you.

  • 3 votes
#1.10 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:44 PM EDT
kaviaq

Apparently you won't be answering my questions either.

  • 7 votes
#1.11 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:55 PM EDT
Dare To Hope

Trying to explain humility and being humble to some atheists is like trying to make kaviaq eat red meat. Hiram has undertaken a journey he believes in and has tried to use a scripture that best describes his journey. You, Kaviaq, have undertaken the journey of being vegan and no one wants to try to force you to explain why, nor do we care, it is simply a choice you believe in that others may not believe to be the healthiest way to live. Why is it so hard for you to see the comparison between these two choices....they are personal choices that NO ONE has the right to judge. If you are truly interested and not just wanting to argue your atheistic beliefs, why don't you just stick around and follow the next article to see where it's going as Hiram has asked you to do? This is his personal journey and you have the choice to not read it.

  • 3 votes
#1.12 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:20 PM EDT
kaviaq

This is his personal journey and you have the choice to not read it.

Newsvine is a discussion forum. Any articles posted are ASKING for comment. That is kind of the point of Newsvine. If he didn't want comments he could set the article to not accept any, or use a different site to blog about his "journey".

As for veganism, I'm not claiming to be the "Dietary Leader" of my family.

  • 4 votes
#1.13 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:04 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Kaviaq, even though I disagree with you, I respect how you've kept your cool when you're outnumbered (on this page). I've had some bad experiences on Newsvine; you've given me a positive one.

Regarding your question, the teaching of the Bible is that, as God is a God of order, His people accept and emulate that principle in their own lives. Allow me to mention the Biblical basis for this (hope it doesn't come across as preachy -- not my intention!).

I Corinthians chapter 11 says: "... the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God". The Son (Christ) and the Father (God) are co-equal divine beings, but the Son submits to the Father's leading. So in the family, the wife is co-equal to the husband, yet it is God's desire that she submit to the husbands leading.

I know you disagree; but if you want any more information about the Biblical basis for my belief, feel free to ask.

Cheers, Paddy

  • 4 votes
#1.14 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 9:56 AM EDT
kaviaq

the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man

it is God's desire that she submit to the husbands leading.

I know you disagree

Yeah, I disagree alright. I disagreed when I was 12 years old and started to reject Christianity. My parents took me to a liberal Episcopalian church and I was studying to confirmation and stuff like the above REALLY pissed me off. That and all the grovelling prayers "I'm not worthy to gather up the crumbs under thy table, etc. Even for a kid with low self esteem it was WAY too much. I KNEW it was wrong, even without knowing how I knew it. The idea that a woman is less than a male in any way, or that a woman should "follow" someone just becasue hehave a penis is so absurd even a child can laugh at it.

I really don't understand how anyone can swallow this sexist nonsense in this day and age. When I was told these were the rules of our religion, I did away with my religion. Why would I follow dogma I KNOW to be wrong. Why do any of you??

PS- In case you didn't know I was raised Christian, first Catholic and then Episcopalian. My father was the Arch Deacon of our State, second only to the Bishop. I KNOW Christianity.....I just don't LIKE it. I rejected it entirely at age 16, became Wiccan (nice religion, very life affirming!), and by age 22 rejected all supernatural stuff as make believe.

  • 3 votes
#1.15 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 8:08 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Kaviaq,

So be it; to each his own;

Cheers, Paddy.

  • 4 votes
#1.16 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 7:07 AM EDT
Reply
Artie-3438207

Are you called to protect your family from the secular world, Hiram? Does the problem for your family reside with those who do not believe as you do, so you must protect them? What exactly is the problem?

  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:22 PM EDT
Hiram-1381633

Artie I answered these question I believe quite well in 1.2 and 1.4

Thanks for stopping by

H

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:33 PM EDT
Artie-3438207

Nevermind then

A

  • 4 votes
#2.2 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:12 PM EDT
Reply
Anna-90776

You've chosen a tough scripture that is often misunderstood. Your journey will never end Hiram. But the light you're walking in will always be there too.

  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:30 PM EDT
Hiram-1381633

Anna

Thank you for your encouragement you are right the journey never ends and there is a light that guides. Over the past few months I have struggled with walking in that light and have come to the realization that it has been God's invitation for me to join Him and allow Him to work through me in this journey.

H

  • 3 votes
#3.1 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:35 PM EDT
Reply
Enoch-2699399

Perhaps this may help. Hiram is a treasured Vine friend and Vine writing partner. It appears he is struggling to fully actualize his potential. To be his personal best, and become everything he can become. That is not an easy task. It is however, a worthy objective to pursue.

I hope this helps, not hurts. As a writing partner I have never known Hiram to intentionally hurt or condescend to anyone, no less his wife and children. As Anna pointed out, what he is doing in his journey to discover his best self is his focus. It does not preclude his wife and children from performing their own journey's.

In his quest I wish him well. I also wish equally as well all posters to this thread. Each of us, on our own terms, in our own way can and should perform an accounting of ourselves. The goal is to improve us as individuals, in the context of those with whom we share our lives and the planet.

For the record, I am Vegan, a localvore who practices SLO (seasonal, local, organic), and proudly an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi and Chaplain. I fully accept everyone as my equal, not more not less. I respect differences where they occur. I also am always on the lookout for situations where we find that we share common goals, values, aspirations and hopes. On such things can we build coalitions, to move society forward so our children and grandchildren ( I am blessed with both) will inherit a better world from us than we got. And so on for them and their offspring. Such is how progress occurs. Not by dwelling on what separates us. Those things preceded us, and will survive us. Rather by working in harmony where we can on this which unite us.

Peace and Blessings to us all. Enoch.

  • 5 votes
Reply#4 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:05 PM EDT
Hiram-1381633

Enoch my wise friend it is good to see you. Thank you for the kind words and for stopping by to read. My one and only goal is to improve and be the person G_d wants me to be. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with my path is really not a worry as it is my path. I wish ill will to no one and only blessings on the path they choose.

H

  • 3 votes
#4.1 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:00 AM EDT
Reply
mashelley

Hiram, I'm so impressed with how you put yourself out there for NV readers.

Every family needs a spiritual leader, it seems to flip flop in my family according to who is more spiritually strong at the moment. Sometimes it's my husband other sometimes it's me, we carry, push, nudge and love one another through our personal difficult times. In a world where personal accountability is fading, it's nice to see someone step up and say "the buck stops here".

Nice article, thanks for sharing it.

  • 4 votes
#5 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:28 AM EDT
Hiram-1381633

mashelly

My wife and I to "flip flop" and support each other as needs arise in our lives. I am blessed to have a wife who has put up with me as I have been going through this struggle. There have been many emotional ups and downs, yet I know in the end I will be a better person because of it.

H

  • 4 votes
#5.1 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:03 AM EDT
kaviaq

Every family needs a spiritual leader

Mine doesn't.

  • 2 votes
#5.2 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:05 PM EDT
mashelley

Mine doesn't.needed.

It doesn't need one, or you don't want one?

  • 1 vote
#5.3 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:49 PM EDT
kaviaq

It doesn't need one. We have no "spirituality". My husband and I are nonbelievers.

  • 2 votes
#5.4 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 3:59 PM EDT
mashelley

It doesn't need one. We have no "spirituality". My husband and I are nonbelievers.

Gottcha. This is a serious question, there is no harm intended by this. Since you are non-believers and I know there is goodness in your life and family, who leads in that area?

    #5.5 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 6:40 PM EDT
    kaviaq

    Since you are non-believers and I know there is goodness in your life and family, who leads in that area?

    No one leads. We are equals. Like most couples we do what needs to be done and "go with our strengths". He does the finances because he was a Math major and very organized. I make most of the money because I'm naturally more ambitious and went to Grad school. I do the dishes, he does the windows and vacuuming, etc. If one of us is sick the other one takes up the slack. Don't most people work that way?

    • 5 votes
    #5.6 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 6:49 PM EDT
    bluearcher

    No one leads. We are equals.

    I would be embarrassed if I viewed my wife as anything but my equal generally and superior in other specific aspects.

    Perpetuating the religious ideals of dominion over my wife and family and animals is simply counter productive to a more respectful view of equality.

    Why perpetuate any concept that parallels master\slave or authority\servant?

    • 2 votes
    #5.7 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 7:08 PM EDT
    Hiram-1381633

    Kaviaq and Bluearcher perhaps you can get a more clear perspective by reading the next installment. http://hiram-1381633.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/31/8563629-resolution-2

    H

    • 1 vote
    #5.8 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 7:42 PM EDT
    mashelley

    Thanks Kaviaq. I appreciate you answering my question. If you don't mind I have another question. Do you view spirituality as a weakness or some kind of unrighteous dominion?

      #5.9 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 8:53 PM EDT
      kaviaq

      Do you view spirituality as a weakness or some kind of unrighteous dominion?

      I think the need to know "the answers" is so strong in humans that most would rather have NAY answer over no answer. I think that is why humans invented gods and other supernatural things. To explain the unexplainable (at least at the time). With science we can now explain SOME things we couldn't before. But unless we can explain EVERYTHING (which is unlikely) people will still have that same need.

      I also think fear of death and a need to be "special" (and not just another animal) fuels it as well. Basically we're too smart for our own good. We KNOW we are going to die but our psyche can't really handle that information. I can rationally tell myself that I will die like any other animal....but it still really bugs me on an emotional level. So I think the need that spirituality fills is inherent in all people, but it isn't the only way to deal with those emotions. I wouldn't say "weakness" because it seems to be a good coping mechanism for most people (not counting the problems religion causes, which is kind of a "collateral damage").

      some kind of unrighteous dominion?

      Not really sure what you mean by this.

      • 3 votes
      #5.10 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 9:13 PM EDT
      mashelley

      kaviaq, thanks for taking the time to converse about this. Hiram, I know is a bit off topic, so thanks for allowing it.

      To explain the unexplainable (at least at the time).

      I've read a lot of comments on NV from people who think religion was invented to control us be causing fear. I'm a believer because I get something in return. It makes me feel good and maybe like you said, it's helps me cope with my immortality.

      kind of unrighteous dominion?

      Not really sure what you mean by this.

      Do you think men (not women) use their spirituality to rule or dominate/control their families and spouse?

      Most Christians would say they draw their strength from their religion. Where do you draw strength from?

      • 1 vote
      #5.11 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 10:55 PM EDT
      bluearcher

      Jesus says in Matthew 5:27-28 that to look upon a woman with lust is committing adultery in your heart. It is not just a physical act but it is an act of the heart. God looks at the heart, what is in the heart of a man.

      With respect, the above statement reduces certain biological imperatives to thought crimes within ones faith.

      The neurological aspects of the brain (most specifically the male brain) and an appreciation for the human form too easily equate to combine to make me a "sinner" and "unfaithful" in terms of your faith.

      Instead of withholding and hiding such from each other, my wife and I openly recognize that interest or attraction as it pertains to appearance is normal. We know each others "cues" and specifics that catch each others attention in regard to attraction and are secure enough within our relationship and love for each other to actually make comments and joke about it.

      • 2 votes
      #5.12 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 10:18 AM EDT
      Hiram-1381633

      bluearcher-

      I commend you and your wife on having such a good relationship. Perhaps the definition of the a fore mentioned passage should be made clear. Jesus is not saying it is wrong to look at another pretty woman. What He is saying it is wrong to lust. To see that woman, and have sexual thoughts about them. There is nothing wrong with appreciating beauty no matter what form it is in. It is taking that thought to the next level that is a sin.

      • 2 votes
      #5.13 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 10:22 AM EDT
      bluearcher

      What He is saying it is wrong to lust.

      And to clarify what I hoped you would infer: certain thoughts that could be considered lust are natural and "hard wired" neurologically into the male brain.

      To recognize and understand that to be normal and not have to feel any unnecessary guilt because of ones faith is freedom and enlightenment.

      Too many aspects of faith, while mostly commendable, are designed\intended to control what is actually normal and biological.

      • 2 votes
      #5.14 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 10:33 AM EDT
      Hiram-1381633

      And to clarify what I hoped you would infer: certain thoughts that could be considered lust are natural and "hard wired" neurologically into the male brain.

      I believe that lust is a part of who we are in a broken world. I also believe we have the ability to control our thoughts and actions. You can either give in to your own desires or not. The choice is our own. If I were to not feel guilty about having thoughts of sex with another woman other than my wife, I would have to question my own commitment to my wife and to what extent I really love her. Perhaps you should check out part 2 of this article.

      H

      • 1 vote
      #5.15 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 11:02 AM EDT
      bluearcher

      I believe that lust is a part of who we are in a broken world.

      The world is what you make it. Thinking it 'broken" is a reflection of pessimism and, in this case, your indoctrination and belief in your chosen faith.

      I also believe we have the ability to control our thoughts and actions. You can either give in to your own desires or not.

      And simply thinking something is not "giving into your desires" and shouldn't be viewed as shameful based upon some ancient creed or dogma.

      If I were to not feel guilty about having thoughts of sex with another woman other than my wife, I would have to question my own commitment to my wife and to what extent I really love her.

      Guilt and shame are the unfortunate by-products of your indoctrination and belief in your chosen faith. Why would I feel shame for an appreciation of beauty and understanding the biological and neurological prerogatives of adaptation and evolution. Perhaps your "commitment" to your wife isn't as strong as mine to my wife.

      Perhaps you should check out part 2 of this article.

      I did and recognize it for what it is.

      • 2 votes
      #5.16 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 11:12 AM EDT
      mashelley

      bluearcher, I do believe we are hardwired with a great many flaws. Some are meant for our good and most if not all are meant to be overcome. Without seeing the beauty in others would we want to procreate? Hardwires don't give us freedom to do what ever we want without a consequence. Religion is also a hardwire into our brains, yet many choose no religion. How do you explain that?

        #5.17 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 11:20 AM EDT
        bluearcher

        I do believe we re hardwired with a great many flaws.

        Flaws? We are only "flawed" when applied to some standard of morality. And not everyone subscribes to such.

        Without see another person as good looking, would we want to procreate?

        Exactly. It is biological and no reason for shame to be associated with such.

        Religion is also a hardwire into our brains, yet many choose no religion. How do you explain that?

        Incorrect. Religion is learned behavior. Primarily via indoctrination before the age of reason.

        The human brain is conducive to spirituality but studies suggest that it is merely a biological response...a self induced release of hormones within the brain.

        If you were born and placed alone on a deserted island, you would have no concept of religion but may have suspicions of spirituality via encounters that you cannot explain and incorrectly perceive to be supernatural.

        • 2 votes
        #5.18 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 11:30 AM EDT
        mashelley

        Exactly. It is biological and no reason for shame to be associated with such.

        Who said anything about shame? However, just because we are hardwired for lust and sex doesn't mean anything goes. We're also hard wired to survive and we know there are some real problems with numerous sexual encounters. People die when sex and lust overcome the survival drive.

        Incorrect. Religion is learned behavior. Primarily via indoctrination before the age of reason.

        Sorry, but we are hard wired for spirituality, faith and religion. The act of participating in religion a specific way might be learned, but so is speaking. Look up neurotheology.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology

        http://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132078267/neurotheology-where-religion-and-science-collide

        http://discovermagazine.com/2006/dec/god-experiments

        http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-04/health/neurotheology_1_scans-frontal-lobe-sensory-information?_s=PM:HEALTH

        If you were born and placed alone on a deserted island, you would have no concept of religion but may have suspicions of spirituality via encounters that you cannot explain and incorrectly perceive to be supernatural.

        If God is real your statement is false, if he is not real your statement is true. How do you intend to prove weather or not God is real? Still, weather God is real or not, we are hard wiring for spirituality.

        • 1 vote
        #5.19 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 2:20 PM EDT
        kaviaq

        Do you think men (not women) use their spirituality to rule or dominate/control their families and spouse?

        Yes. Especially in the Abrahamic religions. The Torah, Bible, Q'uran, all try to put women in a lower position than men. Women are treated as property and only useful for procreation. I think it stems from the power of women to create life. Men in ancient superstitious times feared that power and used religion to usurp it. From creators of life we were lowered to livestock owned by men.

        The whole concept of "virginity" comes from this. As if a woman's worth is centered in her vagina and what she's been doing with it. But men feared women's sexuality and especially feared no knowing who fathered her offspring. So they have used religion to imprison her and the concept of virginity to shame her. In some cultures they LITERALLY sew up the vagina so she can't use it, only to be cut open by her husband on her wedding night!! This still happens today. And The Abrahamic religions are the source of this continued war on women.

        • 2 votes
        #5.20 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 8:20 PM EDT
        kaviaq

        Most Christians would say they draw their strength from their religion. Where do you draw strength from?

        From myself, my husband, my friends, and my education.

        • 2 votes
        #5.21 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 8:21 PM EDT
        mashelley

        Kaviaq, again, thanks for answering my questions. I read in another comment that you are wiccan. If you gain strength from your husband, friends and education what does wiccan offer you? I admit, I know very little about wiccans, so please excuse my ignorance.

        • 1 vote
        #5.22 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 10:48 PM EDT
        kaviaq

        I read in another comment that you are wiccan.

        No I WAS Wiccan. I am an atheist now (and have been for about 18 years). After rejecting Christianity I thought I just had the wrong religion. I really liked the Wiccan religion but soon realized my problem really lay in the fact that as a born skeptic I was noticing that there was no evidence for any of the supernatural claims of any religion.

        Wicca is a polytheistic pagan religion where the main deity is female an the male deity is equal to or often less that the female. Many Wiccan sects see the male deity as a distant second, but they always keep him around. Like may pagan religions it is based on being one with Nature and the planet Earth and follows the seasons and moon phases. It also celebrates sex as the source of life. It is a sacrament, not a sin. Like I said, it is a beautiful religion. But I just don't believe in any gods or anything else supernatural. I think it is all made up. So I couldn't in good conscience keep practicing Wicca.

        • 1 vote
        #5.23 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 4:43 PM EDT
        mashelley

        Kaviaq, thank you for answering all my questions without being snarky. Religion raises a lot of ugly discussions here on NV, so I appreciate you taking a risk and sticking it out with me.

        • 3 votes
        #5.24 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 6:04 PM EDT
        kaviaq

        You're welcome mashelley,

        I don't mind aswering questions and you've been very polite. It's been nice talking to you.

        • 3 votes
        #5.25 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 8:08 PM EDT
        Reply
        Vlad's dog

        I respect your trying to write about this growth and journey Hiram. Developing your full potential to lead by example is a wonderful way to travel through life.

        Someone must always take the lead and when they do, some folks want to hold the leader back. This is your struggle here I think, some folks are picking apart your words and do not see the whole nature of the message.

        I hear your message loud and clear and I support your efforts. :)

        • 3 votes
        Reply#6 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:54 AM EDT
        Hiram-1381633

        Thank you my friend I do appreciate the support. I am use to people picking apart my words it happens to all of us. No who you are or what you believe there will be opposition. That can be a good thing in that it forces you to look deeper into what you believe. To believe without question is to be foolish. Try and stay warm I no wither is coming and a coming fast.

        H

        • 4 votes
        #6.1 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:56 AM EDT
        Reply
        Jackie-2759125

        kaviaq - you have really strong feelings about this topic and coming from a Roman Catholic/Christian background, now Pagan, I understand where you are coming from. I have a small bible that has a lot of angry notes in the margins about how women were treated like cattle and commodities instead of people in many cases. When women come to my door and want to talk about Christ I get kind of upset because technically they shouldn't even be there. In many faiths, women aren't even allowed to teach and it's usually those faiths in which I find women at my door. Kind of a living contradiction in my opinion. I too don't feel there has to be a spiritual leader or head of the household but that is my families choice. Hiram and his family have made a different choice. My husband and I usually engage in conversation with anyone wanting to talk about religion and it always ends in mutual respect, understanding and a stalemate (agree to disagree - no one is right or wrong, just different).

        Hiram feels very strongly about his faith and path and part of it carries the perspective he shared here and he's entitled to this regardless of what you or I think about it. There is no need to be antagonistic or brutal in the clashing of ideals. It is obvious you feel very passionately and that is your entitlement. We should be careful in judgement or trodding on the belief systems of others I think. There is room for all of us.

        I commend you Hiram on your spiritual journey and hope it continues to bring enlightenment and comfort to you as you continue.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#7 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:54 AM EDT
        Hiram-1381633

        My friend Jackie, thank you for stopping by. You always bring a calmness and fair perspective and that is a blessing in itself.

        H

        • 5 votes
        #7.1 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:58 AM EDT
        Jackie-2759125

        Your welcome my friend. Just don't like to see people attacking others for sharing their beliefs and very personal thoughts and feelings. Have a good day!

        • 4 votes
        #7.2 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:17 AM EDT
        kaviaq

        Hiram feels very strongly about his faith and path and part of it carries the perspective he shared here and he's entitled to this regardless of what you or I think about it.

        I am in no way stopping him from doing anything. Newsvine is a discussion forum. Perhaps he should post these articles on a nice safe Christian chat-room, so no one asks any questions. But publishing an article on Newsvine is INVITING questions and discussion. So maybe you can all stop acting like I showed up at his house and started telling him what to do.

        • 4 votes
        #7.3 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:09 PM EDT
        Reply
        Holly-348328

        Glad you are working on yourself and your relationships, even with God. It's important work. Advent is just around the corner too!

        • 3 votes
        Reply#8 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:28 PM EDT
        Hiram-1381633

        A work in progress

        H

        • 2 votes
        #8.1 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 10:07 AM EDT
        Reply
        Paddy Ryan

        Enjoyed that, Hiram.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#9 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 9:58 AM EDT
        Hiram-1381633

        Thanks for stopping by

        H

        • 2 votes
        #9.1 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 10:08 AM EDT
        Reply
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